Anti-Climb strips & the law? | Talk Photography

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1,314

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Mick

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• 22 Jan

• #1

Anti-climb strips

We’ve been having a problem recently with some local youths, who think they have the right to enter my garden when they feel like it.
I work away and wanted to put up some spike strips like these http://www.prikka-strip.com/

Their ploy, is to throw stones at the front of the house to make you come to the front, you then hear the others apparently trying to gain access at the rear door of the house. Luckily my wife closed & locked the front door before seeing what was happening at the rear. She was confronted by two youths swearing and shouting at her, she managed to close the door before anything else happened.

The police were called and arrived promptly, the kids are apparently well known and are regulars in their note books!

My main question is, what are the legalities of using these type of strips? I have trawled the net but seem to get many different answers as to the use & the law covering these strips.
I have bought the strips http://www.prikka-strip.com/ and also ordered some signs to put on the fence warning potential trespassers of the hazard.
Has anyone got any experience in the pros & cons of using them?
I am not interested in hurting anyone, just deterring them from entering MY property :razz: Last edited: 22 Jan

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1,430

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• 22 Jan

• #2

I think the best people you could speak to would be your insurers.
Could be a nasty case if someone got injured and sued you. People have lost their houses over things like that.

Why the huge font by the way? Normal sized one is far easier on the eye.

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3,420

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• 22 Jan

• #3

not sure about the legallity of these strips but carpet gripper rods do the trick ............... apparently

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19,354

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Rich

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• 22 Jan

• #4

Putting these strips up is legal, nails and broken glass is not. As long as there are enough warning signs fixed in place so that would be offenders can see and read them from all angles, you will be fine, just make sure you place the signs where they cannot be ripped down.

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1,314

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Mick

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• 22 Jan

• #5

I am really trying to find something that states rules.

Like minimum fence hight, distance between signs etc.

Mick (font de-huged)

big soft moose

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Pete

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• 22 Jan

• #6

Putting these strips up is legal, nails and broken glass is not. As long as there are enough warning signs fixed in place so that would be offenders can see and read them from all angles, you will be fine, just make sure you place the signs where they cannot be ripped down.

That does assume the offenders can read - probably best use the EU universal graphics to be sure

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10,609

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Suz

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• 22 Jan

• #7

You can only put them at 6 foot high or so.

Get some brambles or prickly holly hedge. Works much better. . I used to get all sorts of scumbags thinking they could just trespass. Hedge kept them right away. Virtually inch long spikes do wonders for their ability to understand where they shouldn't be going.

Also get a web cam and make sure they are identifiable and persist with the local police to get them prosecuted. If they're in rented properties complain to their landlord/housing association and try and get their families moved on. It's objectionable behaviour that needs stamping on.

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• 22 Jan

• #8

I've had this problem in the past, I have ivy growing up and over my fence now plus prickly bushes in my garden. You can also buy some anti climb paint that you could use on the outside of your fence, it's black and not very nice to touch at all.

Or a hosepipe, on jet

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1,314

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Mick

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• 22 Jan

• #9

That does assume the offenders can read - probably best use the EU universal graphics to be sure

This is the signs I have ordered.


Mick

big soft moose

Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy...

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Pete

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• 22 Jan

• #10

yep that's the graphic - I was being a little tongue in cheek, but its a serious point you dont want to get sued by some scrote who doexznt speaka da inglizh

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3,769

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John

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• 22 Jan

• #11

Get a cat. Acquire plenty of cat turds. Apply to top of wall. Far less unsightly than those anti-climb spikes.

And speak with the local crime prevention bod re physical devices, nails or glass.... or 240v.

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9,818

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• 22 Jan

• #12

I had a very similar problem several years ago with a business premises. Vandals were scaling a wall, causing damage to vehicles and were also posing a risk to themselves by walking up the slope of the wall to bang on the windows of the first floor of a Georgian townhouse (very tall ceilings, narrow wall, significant drop).

I discussed the matter with the Police and the local authority anti-social behaviour officer.

We went for rather more substantial metal spikes. Unfortunately the manufacturer supplied us with the warning signs for "razor spikes" (an interesting product developed in South Africa, bloody lethal). I subsequently had complaints made by local residents (the parents, in other words) to the Police, the Local Authority and the HSE. All of which I was succesfully able to have thrown out as I was able to demonstrate that:

• Climbing the wall was a hazard to the health of those doing so, by fitting the anti-climb measures I was fulfilling my duties under the Occupiers Liability Act ;
• I was securing the premises to fulfil my obligations to the safety of employees on the site;
• I was not using unreasonable measures, the spikes were a commercial (rather than home-made) deterrerent made for this purpose. They were not unduly sharp or barbed, they were fitted out of the reach of children and out of casual reach;
• Adequate warning signs were in place, and whilst these represented a more dangerous product than had been installed this was not a problem (whereas the other way might have been).
• Noone would be affected by the spikes unless engaged in an unlawful act, i.e. attempted trespass or gaining access in order to commit a criminal act.

I would never, ever use any homebrew solutions. Carpet spikes is a stupid idea, too sharp and damaging (the aim is to deter not injure, and rusty spikes would be a tetanus risk). Anything involving electricity that isn't an off-the-shelf and approved product for the purpose is an equally stupid idea (and the off-the-shelf stuff is expensive). Broken glass, bottles, etc. is probably illegal and certainly puts you on a sticky wicket when faced with the Occupiers Liability Act (as would carpet spikes, I think).

You must provide adequate warning signs, and you must maintain them, i.e. replace them if damaged, defaced or stolen (for longevity - glue don't screw, silicone seal right up to the edge so there is no fingernail room, get them with an anti-graffiti finish). Take a photo of the fence showing them in situ once installed, and then again every 3 or 4 months. It's not unreasonable, and it covers your backside legally in the event someone complains. With the prickler strips you're probably taking the safest route from your own legal perspective.

The above is not legal advice (in case I missed a "probably" somewhere), it is based on my own experiences with ths type of problem. If you want it official, my PII doesn't kick in for advice unless I'm being paid to give it

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1,314

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Mick

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• 22 Jan

• #13

Very good reading mate,

I will certainly take all possible precautions as you suggest. Was also going to ask local crime prevention officer to take a look when all installed.

Thanks for all the advice.

Mick

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7,969

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Sara

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• 22 Jan

• #14

How sad is it that you have to put up signs warning scumbags that they may hurt themselves while they break the law themselves by climbing into your property.

Broken glass cemented on top of walls seems to work out here in Spain, no warning signs either. Why the hell should you be worried if THEY are breaking the law. Bloody stupid indictaion of how soft and pathetic society has become.

arclight

Oooh that burglar's a cutie

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11,594

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Doug

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• 22 Jan

• #15

Anti - intruder paint. It does not dry.

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2,030

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Andy

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• 22 Jan

• #16

There is also the option of anti vandal grease. This stuff is disgusting and I'm sure the local scrotes won't want their trendy shell suits smeared with it!

Just a thought .

Andy

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9,818

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• 22 Jan

• #17

Anti - intruder paint. It does not dry.

There is also the option of anti vandal grease. This stuff is disgusting and I'm sure the local scrotes won't want their trendy shell suits smeared with it!

Just a thought .

Andy

For completeness, this was an option discussed in the situation I described before and we rejected it at an early stage.

If you put anti-climb paint below about 6' above the ground* you'll always get wet paint sign syndrome. The irresistable desire to test to see if it is indeed wet/undrying. It doesn't go down well with those responsible for washing the clothes of the curious (rather than unsociable) children in the community. It's also a PITA when it gets in the way of routine maintenance.


* put it much above 10' and you're again into the territory of installing something for the delight in causing pain and injury rather than actings as adeterrent. I gather that Sara and her Spanish neighbours prefer the sadistic approach, rather than an effective one.

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nick

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• 22 Jan

• #18

get a couple of these fitted with 12 guage blanks watch them trip them and hop back over the fence quicker than they came in

http://www.allcocksoutdoorstore.co.uk/store/product//Alarm-Gun-to-Fire-12-gauge-Alarm-Blanks/

Lynton

awkward customer

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10,606

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Lynton (yes really!)

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• 22 Jan

• #21

get a couple of these fitted with 12 guage blanks watch them trip them and hop back over the fence quicker than they came in

http://www.allcocksoutdoorstore.co.uk/store/product//Alarm-Gun-to-Fire-12-gauge-Alarm-Blanks/

mmm i want one!

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• 22 Jan

• #22

This may help. Sorry if it has already been covered.
The Use of Barbed Wire

Barbed wire may be used to defend your property, but the law puts certain restrictions on its use.
Section 164 Highways Act , says that where, on land adjoining a highway, there is a fence made with barbed wire in or on it and the wire is a nuisance to the highway, a notice may be issued by the Local Authority for the nuisance to be removed.

Being a nuisance means that it is likely to cause injury to people or animals using the highway.

In practice, most Local Authority Highways Departments usually consider that barbed wire lower than eight feet from the ground could be a nuisance to highway users.

The term "Barbed Wire" means anything with spikes or jagged projections, so would also include the wooden carpet gripper strips which have nails sticking up through the wood.

If the barbed wire is not adjoining the highway and an injury results, you could still be faced with a claim for damages under the Occupier Liability Acts. Occupiers of premises have a duty of care, to people entering or using their premises. This duty even extends to trespassers, although it is not as extensive as it is to people lawfully using or visiting the premises. So a burglar, who could not be aware that barbed wire was on top of a fence and injured himself on it, could have a claim against you despite the fact that he was a trespasser.

If you wish to have some sort of barbed wire protecting your property, it may be a good idea to check with your home insurance company that they would cover you in the event of a person claiming for an injury caused. It is for these reasons that most residents prefer to use Mother Nature's own barbed wire, a prickly bush, climbing rose or similar. A separate Fact Sheet gives advice on suitable prickly plants.

Reproduced by kind permission of the South Trafford Crime Prevention Panel
Author: PC Chris Mackenzie, Assistant Force CSO, GMP
Copyright © , Greater Manchester Police



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4,237

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Rick.

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• 22 Jan

• #23

Sympathise with you Mick.
Not as serious, but a good few years ago,we moved into 3 bed semi in a quite street and did it up like a palace.
Years went by and baby's when we moved in became older,as children do.
But children play football, and footballs come in gardens,
Gardens (ours anyway) planted with nice plants.

Children come in gardens to get balls,children stand on plants to get balls, .

Solution,tell children to knock on door so you can get the ball for them,
Big big mistake to make.
Children kicking ball in garden and knocking all night.
Solution, tell children you will throw ball out next day.
This ,of course in not acceptable to children.
Result trampled plants.:bonk:

Solution,lock gate. Now mister plod comes on the scene,You cannot lock the gate, you have to allow access to the emergency services

Solution ,sell bl@@dy house and move to a quite area,

So far so good.

I am REALLY sorry for people having this sort of agro, because you seem to be the bad guy in these scenarios.

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543

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paul

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Steep

Nutcrack Rapids

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16,882

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Hugh

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• 23 Jan

• #25

What about a rose? something like the rambling Albertine rose which looks good and has plenty of nasty thorns.

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1,314

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Mick

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• 23 Jan

• #26

Hopefully I can get our neighbour to agree to allow us to plant some thorny bushes on his side of the fence. The fence is to the front of his house but is well off to the side & would not cause any problems for his access etc.

Cheers for all the info

Mick

MartynK

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5,527

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Martyn

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• 23 Jan

• #27

I used to live in South Africa where armed/violent domestic robberies are a serious problem and perimeter security is a major concern. Most people - the ones that can afford it, anyway - live behind high (2m) walls with remote controlled gates, or in security estates. The law allows you quite a bit of latitude and electric fencing is popular, but pretty useless without an armed response service or your own weapons. These aren't really options in the UK, but strong, thorny, hedges and bushes were one of the best passive obstacles to unlawful/unwanted entry anyway.

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159

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Diane

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• 23 Jan

• #28

Really makes my blood boil that these scum are afforded better protection and treatment over the people they are trying to steal from.

How about a sign that says your property is covered in Smart Water. http://www.smartwater.com/Personal.aspx

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3,093

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Russ

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• 23 Jan

• #29

As a temporary measure, how about putting some trellis on top of your fence/wall to make it more of an obsticle?

If that gets broken when they try to gain access to your property you might have more chance of getting them done for criminal damage.

Also, I'm really clumsy when it comes to DIY and usually use the wrong size nails/screws. Suppose I should be more careful as one day someone might get hurt on a stray nail/screw or three

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1,340

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Mark

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• 23 Jan

• #30

If you want something really effective, quick growing and looks quite nice too when the berries come out - Pyracantha - the thorns are evil and anyone who is stupid enough to try and get through or over it will get in a mess - I dread having to trim it but it is a fantastic hedge plant and when the berries come out the pretty too and the birds love it

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Mike

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• 23 Jan

• #31

I use "Prikka Strip" on my fencing. Perfectly legal to use.

Warning stickers supplied with the product. If you are really concerned about vandals hurting themselves with these then you can cut the sharp spikes down a bit. The strips would still be effective.

The sharper the better !

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1,908

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Andrew

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• 23 Jan

• #32

Just saw on super scrimpers on the tv a bloke recommending using old carpet grippers to deter thieves not to sure myself

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• 23 Jan

• #33

Just saw on super scrimpers on the tv a bloke recommending using old carpet grippers to deter thieves not to sure myself

Saw that as well.. just because it's on tv does not make it right.

Vicious little b'ds those nails on a carpet gripper, and that fence was about 4' tall. First kid to rip their hand and he'd rightly be responsible.

big soft moose

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20,964

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Pete

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• 23 Jan

• #34

little sods shouldnt be climbing the fence in the first place

litigation society gone mad

when i was a lad i ripped the arse out of my trousers and cut myself climbing a glass topped wall (for reasons that don't bear going into)

When my folks found out I got a thick ear for being an idiot and my allowance stopped to pay for the trousers

these days its all about the offenders rights and **** the victim

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2,374

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martin

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• 25 Jan

• #35

Let them in the garden then knock lumps out of them with a large stick shaped like a baseball bat, although this doesn't answer your question, it is a solution.

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10,447

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Graham

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• 26 Jan

• #36

Whatever you do, I'd make sure you photograph it all (including warning signs) on a routine basis to prove you maintained a good level of responsibility.

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1,314

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Mick

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• 1 Feb

• #37

Thanks for the info everyone.
I have had a chat with our local crime prevention officer who gave me the following advice.
The fence/spikes must not be easily accessible by accident from a public highway. The height is not clearly defined, but, it is governed by the location. I.e. a farmer putting barbed wire on a 3” fence between fields is fine, however a house owner putting spikes on a low fence, on a cut-through where kids pass to school is not deemed acceptable.
My fence is at the end of a private drive at the side of my neighbour’s property & is high enough to prevent accidental injuries. There is no public right of way & there is no reason for anyone to come close to the fence.
As people have suggested, he advised clear signs & regular photographs to prove I am taking all reasonable precautions to “deter” unauthorised access to my property.
My intention is “not to harm” but simply deter entry using a commercially available product that is highly unlikely to cause major injury to an intruder.
Hope this clarifies the position for anyone else in my situation.

In short, the home owner must show he/she is not intending to cause harm, but simply deter unauthorised access & has taken all reasonable precautions to warn would-be intruders and prevent accidental injury to the passer-by.

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3,093

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Russ

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• 1 Feb

• #38

Thanks for reporting back on this Mick!

Useful to know for future reference

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4,729

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Jamie

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• 1 Feb

• #39

How about a moat? If you're an mp you could even get the general public to pay for it

Anti-climb fencing is designed to keep people from climbing over or inside the fence. It’s more secure than other types of wire mesh because it includes high levels of welded pressure points that are very difficult to cut through. Anti-climb fences are available in a variety of heights and gauges depending on your needs and preferences for security measures.

For more information, please visit Haoshun Wire Mesh Manufacturing.

Anti-climb fencing with barbed wire or razor wire, tooth spikes, and security fence spikes is a popular option for high-security applications.

The company is the world’s best Anti-Climbing Spikes supplier. We are your one-stop shop for all needs. Our staff are highly-specialized and will help you find the product you need.

Anti-Climb fencing applications include:

For more information, please visit Chain Link Fence.

• Prisons
• Military facilities
• Government facilities
• Electricity plants
• Nuclear plants
• Airports
• Railways
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• Stadiums
• Warehouses
• Security facilities
• Hospitals and medical facilities
• Schools